This Started Off Short, And Became Sort Of Long…
Posted on March 8th, 2006 in Does All Her Own Stunts, Emotional Angst, Mating And Relating, Polyamory
Well it’s hump day, and even though I am not sure I have anything particularly thrilling or insightful to share, I feel compelled to write something.
Jack and I had a really good talk on Monday night. We were in bed together, cuddled up together under the covers. Sort of from no where he said:
“I don’t think that I can read about you having sex with K on your blog anymore.”
I was a little bit stunned, since usually Jack is aroused by the idea of me being with other men. I asked him gently why it disturbed him.
“I dunno. I guess… it’s not the sex really. It’s the little things you do with him. Reading about it sort of reminds me of the early days of our relationship, all the things we used to do that we don’t anymore…”
What could I say? Jack and I have a very wonderful and fulfilling sex life, and we are very happy together in general. He makes me feel like no man has ever made me feel before or since. Perhaps this was a big hint that I don’t tell him or show him that enough.
He was focusing on the things that I do with K that I don’t do with him. So I started thinking about things that I have with Jack that I will never have with K (if K and I even have a long-term relationship, which is far from a sure thing at this point). For instance, K and I will never have children together, nor will we ever get married (at least not in the traditional sense). We will never buy a house together. Jack and I have years of history together that I don’t have with K. Jack knows me, as I said, sometimes better than I know myself. K and I have our own little ‘things’ as well, but our relationship is still brand new, so comparing it to my marriage with Jack is really like apples and oranges anyway.
Does that mean that K is destined to always be second-best? Of course not, I can’t predict the future, or how things between us will evolve over time. Which brings us around to the next thing that Jack said:
“I don’t know if I can be ok with you loving someone else as deeply as you love me. I kind of want to be the only person you love like that”.
He knows that I don’t love K like I love him. At least not right now. However, he does know that it could possibly progress to that point, and he isn’t sure he is prepared for K to be the same level of importance to me that he is. I wasn’t really sure what to say to that. There’s no point in denying that it might happen, because neither of us really know where this is headed. I also think that Jack is a little unsure about the future because he knows that sooner or later K and I will want to be around each other more than just once a week (we already do of course, but it’s not practical now). Then what do we do? It’s not like a normal relationship where the next logical step is moving in with each other. The practical issues alone are overwhelming.
I asked Jack what he wanted to do. What I really meant is “So are you hinting that you want me to break up with K?” Jack knew what I was getting at. He said that he wants me to be happy, and that he can see K makes me happy, and that my happiness is the most important thing to him.
Well, happiness that comes at a cost to my husband is not worth it to me. Besides, he wouldn’t be happy and he can’t fake it with me, so we’d all end up miserable anyway. I think what he was really getting at is that he is willing to work at this and is not prepared to call it all off. At least that is my hope. Every time I ask if he wants to go back to monogamy he says no, so I believe that he’s telling the truth.
This weekend we will hopefully be having K over for supper and to spend the night. It’s a pretty big deal because our kids will be here and they will get to meet K. It was entirely Jack’s idea, which I wasn’t expecting, but I am really looking forward to it. I am sure that everything will go well, and I’ll blog all about it on Monday.
Wow, I had a lot more to write about than I thought, LOL.
March 8th, 2006 at 9:45 pm
yet another mixed message from Jack. he doesn’t know if he’ll be able to deal with K being as important to you as he is. but he doesn’t want you to break it off with K. he doesn’t want to read about you and K having sex anymore. but he doesn’t want to return to monogamy.
not to mention your own confusing statements. K can never have with you what Jack has with you. but you can’t say that he won’t ever be as important to you as Jack is.
all of this uncertainty and mixed messages and saying one thing and meaning another.
and now your going to introduce K to your kids?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
honestly, that sounds like the worst idea i’ve ever heard.
what happens if the kids grow really attached to K? Jack is NOT going to like that. he already can’t deal with how important K is to you. and then what if Jack finally decides, after going back and forth a few more times, that you should totally break things off with K? the kids lose a person that is important to them. also, kids are very perceptive. i don;t care how old they are, they are going to sense that K is not just another friend. even if they don’t have the language to express that, they will know it. are you going to explain that K is someone that Mommy loves and that is part of Mommy and Daddy’s relationship?
what are you thinking? that really sounds like the worst idea i have EVER heard!!!!!
Reply To The Above Comment
March 8th, 2006 at 9:52 pm
You’re going to have K stay over at your house? While your kids are there??
Reply To The Above Comment
March 8th, 2006 at 10:12 pm
If only everything in life could be black or white, clear and totally non-confusing or contradictory.
The main thing here is that Jack is UNSURE, on one hand he is having some emotional issues, on the other hand he doesn’t want to call it all off and then regret it later. Haven’t you ever been unsure about something? We’re going through a period of uncertainty, that doesn’t mean it’s time to pack it all in and go home.
As for my statements. Just because I won’t have all of the things with K that I have with Jack, does not mean that I can’t have seperate and equally important things with K. All I was trying to get across is that as it stands right now I don’t want Jack to worry so much about the things that I do with K that he and I don’t do together. At the same time I don’t want K to feel like he’s always going to be “less” than Jack. This whole thing is about balance.
As for the kids. For one thing I don’t know how regularly they will be seeing K, and they don’t tend to get especially attached to people after one weekend. My kids tend to be rather selective when it comes to people they get attached to. Lets just say they DO get attached to K, and then we break up. Sadly, this sort of thing is a fact of life. I am not trying to teach them a life lesson or anything, but kids are resiliant. I think you over-estimate how traumatic it would be for them. Things happen in life. Human beings, even from a young age, are equiped to handle these sorts of things. Suppose that Jack is fine with everything and my kids get attached and then K and I grow apart on our own. Should I keep him around just so that I don’t disappoint my kids? Life is highly unpredictable and keeping K from meeting my kids because of fear is rediculous.
I do happen to agree that children are perceptive. However, I also believe that children will accept age-appropriate explanations of situations. If I tell my son that K is just our friend, he will have no reason not to take that at face value. Children are perceptive, yes, but they also have a vrey limitied concept of adult relationships. I would also like to make it clear at this time that K and I will not be acting overly ‘friendly’ with each other in their presence.
Jack and I happen to have a good number of male friends, we are far closer to some than others, and my kids don’t seem to care in the least. They get more attached to the ‘uncles’ that they see more often, and less so to the ones they see infrequently. Jack and I are actually pretty social, so my kids are used to us having different people over.
Having K meet the kids is not the main goal of the weekend. We would like to spend some time together (he, Jack, and I) and if that is ever going to happen more frequently than once every three months, it’s going to have to occur when the kids are around. If we want this relationship to get better we are going to have to start interacting with each other more. It’s a pretty good idea as far as I am concerned.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 8th, 2006 at 10:13 pm
Anon #2
Yes we are, but K will be sleeping in the guest room, alone. I will be sleeping in with Jack, as per usual. It’s not strange for us to have people stay overnight, so it’s not going to be a surprise for the kids or anything.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 8th, 2006 at 10:24 pm
being unsure about whether you want to share your life and marriage bed with someone is a lot more serious situation than, say, being unsure about what brand of toothpaste to buy or where to go on vacation.
and, no, i wasn’t suggesting that if the kids get attached to K you should stay with him forever, even if you grow apart. i don’t think the kids should meet K at all, unless you are sure it is a long-term relationship. not a forever relationship, because no one can say anything is forever, but at least a long-term relationship.
and yes, your kids will have traumatic and upsetting things happen in their lives. we all do. but i don’t think YOU should be the one exposing them to a potentially traumatic situation.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 8th, 2006 at 10:46 pm
I agree, it is FAR more serious, and therefore more likely to cause a great many more mixed feelings, which is exactly the point we are presently at.
I also agree with other things you just said. The thing is, I don’t know that any of us can decide if this is going to last long-term unless we spend some time together, all three of us. Due to our living situation it’s very rare that we can get anyone to watch our children. It’s kind of like being stuck between a rock and a hard place. I am open to suggestions, should you wish to make any.
Jack and K haven’t really spent any time with each other. I think that if Jack has any hope of getting comfortable with my relationship with K (since he really seems to want to try) they need to get to know each other. I don’t know that sending them out together (at this point) without me would be constructive. I think that perhaps Jack knows that as well, which is maybe why he suggested having K over to begin with.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 8th, 2006 at 10:46 pm
will you be having sex with K while your children are in the house?
Reply To The Above Comment
March 8th, 2006 at 10:52 pm
I’m not entirely sure if we will be having sex or not over the weekend. If we do it will certainly be with the door locked and we’ll be quiet about it.
Our kids are in the habit of calling for us if they need something in the night and waiting for us to come to them. They rarely, if ever, come to our door.
I feel highly uncomfortable with our kids catching even Jack and I in the act, so we are pretty accustomed to hiding what we are up to, if that was a concern of yours.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 8th, 2006 at 11:40 pm
that makes sense that it will be hard to decide where this relationship is going unless the three of you can spend time together. i also know it is virtually impossible to get free time when you have small kids.
what are the chances if getting a babysitter/friend/relative to hang out with the kids, while you and Jack go to K’s place?
or having a babysitter/friend/relative take the kids for the day on a fun outing, i.e., children’s museum, the park, the movies, story time at the library, or a combination of those things, if Jack wants things on his turf. (which i would totally understand.)
as i’m sure you’ve experienced, kids always do out-of-the-ordinary things when you least expect it. so the one time when you really don’t want them showing up at your door in the middle of the night is the exact time they will.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 8th, 2006 at 11:47 pm
Don’t think I’ll need to check the blog to see how this one turns out. I’ll just look for the mushroom cloud.
Everybody be sure to stock up on
SPF 10,000,000,000 sunblock!
- TTDK
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 12:26 am
maybe it’s too much pressure on everyone to have a sleepover at this point. maybe you should start off small, like having dinner together at a restaurant once a week for a month or so. wouldn’t V be willing to watch the babies one night a week? or another close friend?
that way, if things get uncomfortable, you can just go back to your own homes and try again next time. also, it totally removes the question about whether or not you’re going to have sex…. unless your thinking of having sex in a booth at your local restaurant. and notice i suggested a restaurant and not a bar, because i think you’ve already experienced how alcohol can confuse things. i don’t think you can truly get to know a person, in the way you want to get to know K, if alcohol is involved.
then if these interactions go well, and you and Jack still think you want to pursue this thing with K, you can move on to more intense situations like sleeping over at one another’s homes.
baby steps…….
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 12:34 am
Hey Stiletto girl,
I’m curious to know how the dinner goes this weekend. I think it’s a good idea for K and J to get to know each other more. I’m glad you and J are communicating and working through your bumps along the road in your open marriage. You wrote a good blog post…I hope your doing ok and having a good day today…
BIG HUGS
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 12:40 am
she writes the same thing every time.
it’s like she doesn’t even read the posts.
is that really being supportive?
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 12:52 am
Hey, anon, shut the frick up. Padme has been supportive of me in ways that you cannot imagine. She doesn’t feel the need to leave long-winded comments because her and I talk irl all the time. She just wanted to show her support publicly so that it wouldn’t be all negativity on my comment board.
Keep your comments directed at me please. When people have something to say on my blog I don’t want other commenters discouraging them.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 12:55 am
i don’t think it matters that “it was entirely Jack’s idea” for K to spend the night at your place.
there are two things i’ve learned about Jack reading this blog (and his entry):
1. he is an intelligent, thoughtful, and caring man (is that three things?);
AND
2. when it comes to K, Jack changes his mind as often as he changes his underwear!
don’t set yourself up for another incident where Jack says one thing but means another, or thinks he really does want one thing, but decides halfway through that he doesn’t want that after all.
take things more slowly…..proceed with caution!
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 2:09 am
Did I read this wrong, or does #11 say this…
11. Never bring home a partner while the kids are at the house, *even if they are sleeping*.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 4:08 am
anonymous,
I read each and every post. Stiletto girl is one of my best blogger buddies. I am just trying to give her my support right now. I understand a lot about having a open marriage. It’s very hard in the beginning and there are some bumps but you get through them. Stiletto girl needs a lot of support right now.
Stiletto girl and I talk all the time on irl and I have tried to be there and lend my support.
I think that Stiletto girl and J have a very strong and secure marriage and those that think differently don’t really know them very well. I feel very upset reading some of the comments to my friend. She’s a awesome person and I am so thrilled to know her and be her friend.
Stilleto Girl,
Your truly the best! Thanks for what you said. I could give you a big hug right now. HUGS
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 4:24 am
You say everything is open but you’re playing with your children’s minds by offering up K for the weekend. And of course you’ll have sex with him, gimme a break. I think Jack is wishy washy for sure, he needs his ass kicked to wake the hell up. And I think you’re very manipulative as hell, pretending everything is just fine. If Jack had any nuts whatsoever you would be so out on the street where you could have as many partners as you want, and make a bit of cash on the side.
I bet your marriage doesn’t make it past June. It’s gone now, you guys are just going through the motions.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 4:52 am
Well, as another person who talks to SG outside of this weblog, here is another well-wisher!
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 8:24 am
I can’t believe how many people are claiming to give two shits about your kids. Whatever. Kids join your lives, not the other way around, they’ll deal. Not to mention that kids meet strangers (teachers, neightbors, whatever) whom they become much more attached to then they will become to K and somehow when the important figures leave their lives they survive unscathed. Undoubtedly, they’ll be fine about this, too no matter what happens between the three of you. I wish you luck and love this weekend.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 9:41 am
their mother is not having sex with teachers, neighbors, whatever……that we know of.
it’s not the same.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 10:15 am
It is NOT true that kids just join our lives. Any responsible parent begins making changes in their lives from the minute she finds out she is pregnant. You stop smoking and drinking at least while you’re pregnant. You make changes in your household to ensure that it is babyproof. You can’t just leave the house whenever you want to. You pay more attention to the food you buy and the tv you watch in front of them. And that’s just the short list. There are all sorts of concessions and changes parents have to make to ensure their children have a safe and happy life as much of the time as possible.
K is not just another person. If SG were a single mother I would feel the same. She should not introduce her children to somebody that she has a deep emotional and sexual relationship with unless she and Jack have made some more definite decisions about how K fits into their lives. Sure, kids lose people they love in all sorts of ways. But just because “they’re resilient,” and “they’ll deal,” doesn’t mean we, as parents, need to be giving them things to be resilient about.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 11:36 am
I don’t think any married parent should be having sex with anyone other than their spouse in their own home at any time. Period.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 6:30 pm
I can’t keep track of the Anons, could you all sign in with the “other” option and make some sort of nicks?
Anyways, hurm, SG I’m just going to write what I write and hope you know I’m not trying to insult you or J.
It seems to me that J is a bit insecure. You’ve posted about his trouble meeting women, and so far he hasn’t taken advantage of your open policy. His saying he was “unsure” sounded more like “I’m scared you’re going to love K more” I’d say I trust your judgement on J’s truthfulness, but your posts have made it seem that J has a hard time being open and honest about his feelings. And if he is insecure, he knows that if he told you straight out that he was feeling threatened by K, you’d take it as another “I can’t see K anymore” issues. It seems to me that J doesn’t want to see you sad/depresed/angry, but there’s no way for him to feel truely threated by your inteimacy with K without hurting you.
Your current situation doesn’t seem so much an open marriage as a polyandrous marriage. You have multiple men. Until J gets himself a girlfriend the equal of your boyfriend, he’s never going to get that “Oh, if I can love her the same, she can too” epiphany you had, and you’re not going to face the “He loves someone else too,” feelings that he’s going through.
I think you REALLY need to focus on getting him some “dates.” Until you flip the coin you’re going to be teetering on this uncomfortable edge you two seem to have been on.
Alright, that’s enough psychobabble from me. I might be way off (let’s face it, I only see things from your posts, your side.)
Gor
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 7:17 pm
RE: Mushroom cloud guy
I might be biased because I’m a friend of SG and Jack but don’t you think that people in general are much more mature about things? Especially, when there’s a marriage and children involved. Get your head out of your ass, dude.
Luv, DLS
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 7:39 pm
“Mature” is not really the first word which comes to mind to describe what is going on here. Especially considering that there is a marriage and children involved.
I do think Gor’s analysis is pretty close to the mark. However, it has never been clear from what is written in this blog that Jack is all that motivated to see other women, and I’m not even sure to what extent it was really Jack’s idea in the first place for SG to see other men. If he thought this was a great idea, why the ambivalent behavior now?
- TTDK
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 7:45 pm
i agree that the mushroom cloud guy is out of line.
but a LOT of what other people have said makes perfect sense to me.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 7:45 pm
wow, SG……you can really get a comment thread going, girl!
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 8:01 pm
Ha. Congrats on 26 comments. Children very much DO join our lives. We do make certain concessions but changing who we are as a person, pretending to be something we’re NOT isn’t a concession anyone should make for anyone, young or old. Period. Of course, I think you’re silly for thinking children are so pathetic and useless as to not be able to deal with different family situations. I’m betting you also take issue with gay parents and believe in the sanctity of marriage… and are probably divorced, too. (okay, maybe the last part isn’t true but i’d be god damned funny). To suggest that a parent having sex with a person is what would decide the level of attachment a child takes to another individual in the household strikes me as REALLY weird. Because K has a place in their lives outside of sex, it’s not as if they’re bringing him in and introducing him as the family sex toy.
I think the most annoying part is the complete lack of acceptance of other people’s lifestyles. That it does not agree with your own doesn’t make it wrong. It just makes it different. People all over the world live in different family situations and sexuality isn’t villified the way it is here. And somehow their societies march on, with the children growing up to be happy, productive members of society.
Frankly, my dear SG you put up with a lot more shit from your readers than I’d accept. Don’t let other people’s assumptions about your life from a single-purpose blog change the way you live.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 8:11 pm
Ok, time to address a few of the comments here. Bear with me, this is gonna be pretty long, LOL.
First of all, yes we are re-thinking the dinner/sleepover thing. Jack and I both appreciate all the awesome suggestions and encouraging comments.
I have realized that I need to SLOW way down, I am getting way too far ahead of the situation. More about this in a future blog post.
Jack knows he is very indecisive and prone to changing his mind, as one commenter said “as frequently as he changes his underwear” (I love that by the way, it’s become something of a running joke in the house). That is another reason we need to slow down. Jack needs to have room to change his mind. I know I can’t change him or how he thinks, so the best I can do is work around him.
Gor, your comment pretty much summed it up, you are really perceptive
Jack DOES want to see other women, he just hasn’t yet. I think that once he tests the waters on the other side so to speak he’ll have a much better understanding of where I am coming from. Sadly Jack doens’t have a lot of time or opportunities to meet women, so it’s sort of slow going, but we’re working on it!
I agree that he has a hard time clearly expressing his feeling and thoughts. I am sure in some instances he worries about my reaction, so I am being more conscious of that and more understanding.
To clarify to TTDK, yes it was Jack’s idea for me to see other people. Neither of us were prepared for it to get this serious, it’s just happening and now we are figuring it out as we go along. When Jack suggested it we anticipated that it would be more about casual sex (more like swinging) but that isn’t the direction it is going at the moment, so we are dealing with it the best we know how.
A lot of what has been said here makes a lot of sense, so thanks again everyone
This discussion is far from closed so keep the comments coming if you feel inclined.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 8:18 pm
OdalisqueK, I wanna hug you
I do put up with a lot on mu comment board, and some of my friends don’t understand how I avoid letting it get to me. I really don’t care what all the negative commenters think, and as far as I am concerned letting them parade their ignorance all over my comm board is a good source of amusement for myself and Jack. We especially laughed at the mushroom cloud comment and the guy that said we wouldn’t make it to June
Your comments make a lot of sense, and I agree with you entirely. It’s nice to have you here as someone who understands the lifestyle and makes very logical and thoughtful arguments to the validity of what Jack and I are doing. Thank you for your presence and for your support and encouragement, I appreciate it and so does Jack
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 9:19 pm
SG,
why do you give hugs to a person who completely rips apart one of your “negative” commenters (i think whether or not the comments are negative are debatable), but you tell a person who makes negative comments to one of your friends to “shut the frick up”?
for the record, odalisquek, i never said children were pathetic or useless. the fact that you read that into those comments is unbelievable to me. also, although i have no idea what this has to do with anything, i am happily married, support gay rights and have marched in support of gay marriage and acted as the best woman at a friend’s commitment ceremony. although i’m sure you’ll find a reason to make a snide comment about that, too.
and i think it’s funny that you are talking about being unaccepting of other people’s lifestyles and viewpoints. my personal anonymous comments (some of which you referred to) were neither hostile or disrespectful, as your comments clearly were.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 9:32 pm
To the last Anon (and by the way, I agree with Gor, it woulw be really helpful if all the Anons would start using a number or letter or something so that we can tell you all apart and address specific ‘anons’ more easily).
Anyway, I defended Padme because she is my friend and because the comment towards her had absolutly NOTHING to do with this discussion.
As for OdalisqueK, her argement at least contributed to the subject of the discussion. She was disagreeing with other comments, even if she did so in a manner I would not personally choose to engage in.
As for her comments towards the anon comments: She might find your implications that I don’t consider the well being of my kids as hostile and disrespectful, so it’s really all about perceptions when it comes to the ‘tone’ of comments.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 10:05 pm
so basically, it’s ok for one of your friends to personally attack someone, but not someone that disagrees with you.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 10:24 pm
No, if the anon in question had criticised a comment that Padme had made, IN REALTION to the discussion, I wouldn’t have cared.
Basically s/he just made fun of the way in which Padme chooses to comment, which didn’t contribute to this thread at all.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 11:08 pm
So your attacking SG because she defended a commenter who was showing support rather then criticism? Its like your trying to stir trouble.. and its a pity I have way too much respect for SG and Jack.. or I’d speak my mind
Lets keep it civil and objective. Support and debate alike.If you want a bet on when this marriage will end. I’ll drop about 500 on the day after doomsday. I’ll be sure to have it in a timecapsul when 5 millenia’s pass by..
Cheers
Reply To The Above Comment
March 9th, 2006 at 11:44 pm
Hey, I say it as I read it. Whether it comes across as hostile or not… well… it’s the internet, what do you want? Emoticons? :-)) (because as we all know smileys make EVERYTHING okay). The pathetic and useless thing is really more of an overall reaction to what I’ve been reading about attitudes toward children lately rather than what you said specifically, I apologize if it upset you.
The end.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 10th, 2006 at 12:32 am
thanks…that was cool of you…
Reply To The Above Comment
March 10th, 2006 at 1:48 am
Alright. I’m going to step back in here after being away awhile. I admit I haven’t been paying attention. I’ve been distracted.
But…
I have standing in this discussion because I live a poly life. I am in a triad relationship. Our family is the mirror, in some ways to the sort of relationship that Stiletto Girl, Jack, and K are potentially building together. When we first met, we had no idea at all that there would eventually come to be love between Master and I. We never expected that somehow that relationship would exist side by side with His marriage to T. We had never contemplated poly as a full time relationship option. For us, poly became the way we worked out the reality of multiple loves that HAPPENED. We didn’t seek that with as much intent as SG, J, and K have, but the fact was just as real and the issues were just as daunting at times.
It is easy for people who do not know or understand poly loving and poly relating to become frightened and then react with judgement at the prospect. There are very few of us in this society who are free of the imprinting that tells us that monogamy is the “right” way to love. The fact that almost no one actually DOES monogamy in reality (divorce and infidelity statistics being what they are), doesn’t change our knee-jerk reactions.
Having forged a solid, functioning poly relationship, I can vouch for the challenges. It is not a simple or easy process. We struggled to reach the point where our family functions happily and well, and we continue to invest significant energy into maintaining the relationships that keep our love strong and healthy. Poly relating is no different than couple relating in that regard.
Further, as anyone who has followed our family for any period of time knows, there IS real potential for exactly the sorts of struggling that these folks are sharing here. A new poly relationship has great potential for excitement and joy, but also very possibly may engender feelings of jealousy, fear, and insecurity in partners. These are normal and legitimate reactions. They are not indictments of poly. They can be honored by partners, they can be addressed. They can be the occasion for growth.
The fact that one partner may have or has more or more varied partners than another is also not uncommon. We are talking about human beings and love here. This is not like manufacturing widgets. You cannot place an order for lovers. Relationships occur when and as they do. Different people, with different temperaments, different personalities, and different needs will relate differently. Why is this hard for some people to understand?
As for the issue of children and the potential impacts of poly partners on children in the relationship, I cannot imagine that the possibility of having more grown ups invested in their happiness and well-being could ever be harmful to children. Admittedly there is ever the possibility that an adult introduced into a child’s life might not be there forever. This is a simple fact. There are no guarantees. We cannot shelter children from the vagaries and frailties of human life and human relating. Much better given that fact, I would think, to surround them with more rather than fewer loving and caring folks.
None of us can predict the outcome of this journey that Stiletto Girl, Jack, and K are embarked on. They may soar to the heights, or they may crash and burn. Whatever happens, they will learn much of themselves and each other. It will surely be an amazing adventure. I, for one, wish them blue skies and rainbows.
swan
Reply To The Above Comment
March 10th, 2006 at 1:55 am
SG,
just wondering, no disrespect to anyone’s lifestyle choices, but are you considering the type of relationship that has a Master?
Like I said, I’m just curious.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 10th, 2006 at 2:44 am
I’ve been thinking a lot about the cumulative posts by SG regarding K and J over the last few days, and this post and (noise-filled) discussion have confirmed some of my feelings, even though I reject the absolutist position that “anonymous” has advocated regarding the visit and the kids.
I think the biggest issue that I see with this entire experiment is that SG and K are able to have the spontaniety in their relationship that lovers do, whereas SG and J almost always seem to relate to each other as “parents” or “spouses,” with the all responsibilities that those roles entail. No matter what happens with SG and K, I think it’s imperative that SG and J find ways to create spontanaiety in their own marriage and loving. Without some sparks that involve J, I can’t see how J can ever relax enough to feel comfortable with SG’s relationship with K (or anyone else).
I think it would be an interesting experiment for SG and J to reverse roles for 2 weeks, so that she has the primary responsibility for the house, family, income, etc., and J has the days/evenings free in his schedule to date or otherwise just enjoy time where the responsibilities of the parenting/spouse role are reduced or eliminated. J might find more spontanaiety and freedom to be as liberating as what SG is experiencing, even if he never seeks out or finds a partner. Without some of his own freedom, my sense is that his insecurity in reacting to SG’s freedom is entirely warranted.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 10th, 2006 at 4:11 pm
Swan, thank you SO much for joining the comment board
I always appreciate your thoughts on these matters. Your comment, as always was well thought out, and insightful. Thanks again *HUGS*
Anon, well actually there is a latent D/s component to my relationship with Jack (he being my Master, I being his slave). However, for personal reasons we decided to keep that aspect of our sex life as something just between us. K and I do engage is some very very light BDSM play, but his interest in it is fairly limited (although I suspect I am slowly corrupting him, ha ha ha).
dbx95, first, THANK YOU for at least using some sort of nic for identification purposes, I appreciate it! Secondly, I agree with you, I think that Jack and I need to pay more attention to relating as lovers rather than just as spouses and parents, etc.
I also agree that Jack needs a little more free time. The hard thing about time is that there is so very little of it, LOL. We really do need to make more of an effort to balance it out though, and for us it really comes down to better organization.
Thanks for all the comments
Reply To The Above Comment
March 10th, 2006 at 5:15 pm
Wow, that’s something new to consider.
No experience in this area, but I would have thought that a Master would need to be decisive and consistent. In the descriptions you give of Jack, he often comes across as somewhat indecisive and inconsistent. Is there a mismatch between what you need and what he provides?
Reply To The Above Comment
March 10th, 2006 at 5:33 pm
See, I feel badly now that Jack has come off so badly in this blog.
Under NORMAL circumstances Jack is actually a pretty decisive guy. It’s nearly impossible to be prepared to deal with the emotional issues that this sort of situation brings up. It’s hard, even for me (and I am normally super-decisive) to make clear decisions in regards to this situation.
Jack will admit that consitency is not really one of his strong points. Actually it’s not a strong point of mine either, lol.
Would I like Jack to be more deicsive and consistent? Of course, but it’s unfair to ask him to adapt immediatly to such an unconventional set of circumstances. Naturally it is our hope that eventually all the emotional turmoil will die down and we can find some semblance of normal.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 10th, 2006 at 7:38 pm
Jesus, this is complicated. I think I’ll just go back to cheating.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 11th, 2006 at 3:31 am
I’m not at all surprised to find that Dr. Laura’s presence on the Internet would be shielded behind the mask of “Anonymous.” She’s no more in touch with reality here than on radio:)
All the best:)
Tom
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you’ve imagined.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 11th, 2006 at 4:14 am
Now, having dispatched with the percifalge posted here by “anonymous” let’s talk. SG, J, and K, polyamory is not easy, and, more often than not it doesn’t work. I infer that from experience and from anecdotal evidence. Monogamous marriage, more often than not, doesn’t work. I know that from an overwhelming mountain of empirical evidence. And, it is evident, as well, from numerous studies of the minority of monogamous marriages that survive, they are frequently not sources of enhancement of the lives of the marital partners. This is not an assualt on monogamous marriage. It is a debunking of the myth of the “health” of monogamy and the pathology of polyamory. One is about the same as the other. Intimate human relations are difficult to achieve and not often sources of fulfillment for those involved in them.
I believe polyamory to be far more honest than monogamy, but that is an argument that could be made in either direction.
It has been projected that you are somehow engaging in “wrong” behavior because you are uncomfortable and struggling with emotions and feeling unsure. If adults trying to bond together at deeply intimate levels are not unsure and uncomfortable, then I’d say it’s pretty likely they are headed for failure. Discomfort can come with honesty, and growth, and new intimacy. At the risk of sounding agist, I am going to offer, as well, that, you are not very experienced yet at life, and that can make this more difficult. (Of course, when I was your age I never would have had the vision and courage to go where you are now.)
I have no way to predict if you are headed for disaster or bliss. I don’t know you. I know what I’ve read here and elsewhere. I know the odds are against you whether you are monogamous or polyamorous. I know too that if you don’t try, your odds of happiness and fulfillment are zero.
I/we hope for the best for you and offer support whatever the outcome of your choices are. You seem to me to be proceeding with courage and honesty. Of course the conflicted members of your relationship are givng mixed messages. Your feelings are conflicted.
I liked the suggestions someone made about trying to equalize the freedom you all have to have leisure time to do as you will. But this is all up to the three of you.
You are being heckled by someone (or ones, I am not sure) who want to judge you (and who remain “anonymous” in their condescending cowardice.) If you live your lives on the relational outlying fringe of society, as polyamorists and those in D/s do, you are going to be accompanied much of the time with the terribly frightened, who are going to cite sensibility, religions, etc. to condemn your choices. They are going to espouse that the status quo of American marriage is “healthy,” and good for the kids, (how anyone could look at our divorce statistics and the trends in numerous outcome measures regarding kids and posit that argument is way beyond me.) Do not let them into your head. I know you are feeling vulnerable and you posted here looking for support and not ridicule, and it is tempting to let them make you question your path.
All they do is expose their insecurity in their own life choices, their ignorance, the narrowness of their values, and the limitedness of their intellect.
Play this out. Be honest to yourselves and each other.
All the best:)
Tom
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you’ve imagined.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 11th, 2006 at 4:19 am
Tom,
When you post your full name, street address, and phone number, then you can complain about people posting as “anonymous.” Until then, you’re no less anonymous than anyone else.
Not going to? I didn’t think so.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 11th, 2006 at 1:17 pm
raheretic…..
just because you agree with SG, doesn’t make your comments any less Dr. Laura-ish than anyone else’s. and your just as condescending as other people that have posted as well…..you obviuosly think you’re “right” and “more enlightened” than other people. give me a break!
Reply To The Above Comment
March 11th, 2006 at 1:52 pm
Dr. Laura–a person who offers advice based on his/her belief system; intolerant of people with opposing viewpoints; can’t offer opinion without personal attacks on people who disagree.
hmmmmm…..sounds like commenters on both sides of the discussion fit that definition, both anonymous and not.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 11th, 2006 at 7:57 pm
You know, I always find it ineresting that I’ve never seen a polyamorist, who has felt the need to go to a Blog discussing monogamy, and to attack the narrowness and inanity of the life choices that lifestyle entails. Conversely, I’ve never seen a Blog or other sort of forum where a discussion of polyamory was occurring where there were not avidly self-righteous monogamists who were anonymously attacking polyamory as evil, sick, wrong, harmful to its particpants, unethical, etc.
Uniformly, as well, whenever these bullies ae confronted for their judgmentalism and condescension, like all bullies, they howl like the insecure babies they are. They have to be able to proffer such condescending judgements to feel superior to someone else, and thus to have an identity.
The issue is that if polyamory can be a valid choice for some of us then somehow their lifestyle choices, beliefs, values, etc. are threatened. It is the same sort of psycholoical process through which some people feel that marriage is thtreatened if gays are allowed to have the same marital rights and privileges as are granted to married heterosxuals.
It’s been alleged that I’m intolerant. I’m intolerant of bullying. I’m intolerant of people who know nothing of a lifestyle alternative who dismiss it out of hand as wrong, harmful, etc. I’m intolerant of people piling on and attacking folks who are clearly seeking listening, understanding and support. I’m intolernat of people who feel offended by me and who are so self-righteous they cannot see how offensive their repeated comments have been. I’m about as intolerant a person as you’ll find and I’m damned proud of it.
As to my anonymity being the same as the many “anonymous” commenters, you know when I post. You know I am not one of a hundreds of people who post as Raheretic. I am me…the one and only:) You can learn more about where I come from from reading my profile or can link to my/our Blog to learn much more. If you truly wanted my name, address, etc., it would take little effort to discover my identity. When you can’t even tell whether the anonymous comments are coming from 1 individual or 6, it is simply a further attempt to add to the intensity of your/their ridicule.
Their is a great Einstein quote, “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” This comment stream screams for the citation of this quotation.
If the pack of anonymous detractors here felt insulted by my comments, I’d be most grateful. It’s about time the favor was returned to all of you, and please know the insult(s) were entirely heart felt and intentional.
All the best:)
Tom
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you’ve imagined.
To be loved is fortunate, but to be hated is to achieve distinction
Reply To The Above Comment
March 11th, 2006 at 9:30 pm
i’ve read all of the comments on this blog, and i haven’t seen one, anonymous or not, that has said polyamory is evil, sick, wrong, harmful to its participants, unethical, etc. granted some people have questioned SG’s decisions within the context of polyamory, and some have done it in an insulting way. but other people who have disagreed with SG’s decisions, and SG has thanked them for their point of view, and put their ideas to use. if SG wants to, she can disallow anonymous comments, and then people will have to decide whether they still feel strongly enough to comment. i just know that none of my comments (and only a rare few of the ones i’ve seen here) attack or insult polyamory as a lifestyle choice. but rahretic’s comments have definitely done that to monogamy–now who’s the narrow-minded one? that seems just as avidly self-righteous as he/she accuses other commenters of being.
i can’t speak for all of the anonymous commenters (and being an “anon,” i know there are more than one of us), but I am not personally insulted by rahretic’s viewpoint or comments. i just think rahretic is arrogant and condescending, and is using SG’s comment section to serve his/her own purpose and ego.
it would be well within SG’s rights to bar anonymous comments or lock up her blog. but i would venture to say that she has gained valuable insight from some “anons,” and has learned to take the others with a grain of salt.
i don’t believe my comments will change rahretic’s point of view about us “anons,” though. he/she is just too committed to seeing the world through rahretic-colored glasses.
Reply To The Above Comment
March 11th, 2006 at 10:12 pm
What me………arrogant……..not me, I’d never be arrogant. Heck I’d have to take humility pills for a month to devolve to the level of simple arrogance:)
Tom
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you’ve imagined.
Reply To The Above Comment
April 18th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
[...] last time I mentioned introducing someone I was dating to my kids, my comment board erupted with horror and disgust. Seriously, if you don’t remember that, go [...]